Lean on Me

Lean on MeToday I’d like to expand a little on my recent post about emotional modesty, and talk more about maintaining a healthy balance in communication. Guys especially have to strive to achieve good communication because (surprise, surprise), it doesn’t come to them as easily as girls. One of the reasons relationships are so tricky is because while feelings aren’t everything, they are an important factor. Most other things we do, work for instance, can be done well regardless of how we feel about it, but a relationship can’t be a dispassionate exercise. So one of the most important things in maintaining a healthy relationship is communicating thoughts and feelings. As I see it, there are two major pitfalls to avoid when it comes to communication: the first is not communicating enough, the second is destructive communication, such as excessive venting, or “emotional dumping”—which is when you use another person as a total dumping ground for all your troubles.

It’s important for men especially to understand that women are much more intuitive and sensitive than men are, traits which make women better at empathizing and nurturing than men. But these same traits mean they need more emotional connection than men, because emotions play a bigger part in how women experience the world. So even though it may not seem “manly,” men need to share their feelings with their wife or girlfriend regularly if they want to stay connected to them. It doesn’t matter how close you feel to her, if you don’t tell her, it’ll make you seem more distant. Men also need to understand that women need to vent more about their lives than they do. To male ears this may sound whiny, but it’s a vital part of how women work through things. Often enough, when your wife or girlfriend tells you about her problems, she doesn’t even expect you to solve them for her, just to listen and express sympathy. It really couldn’t be simpler, but men are built to problem solve, so we get it mixed up all the time.

On the flip side it’s easy to fall into the trap of putting too much emotional weight on your boyfriend or girlfriend. Communicating about all the good and bad things in your life is vitally important to maintaining an emotional bond, but one has to be careful not to view your boyfriend or girlfriend as the answer to all your problems. It can be really easy to see your whole life as merely an extension of your relationship, which is, often rightly so, the most important part of it. However, the paradox is, if you’re not complete without a relationship, you won’t find yourself complete with one, even if it feels that way. Nobody can be solely responsible for another person’s happiness; it’s too much to bear. Donald Miller sums it up nicely in his book A Million Miles in a Thousand Years, “I think that’s why so many couples fight, because they want their partners to validate them and affirm them, and if they don’t get that, they feel as though they’re going to die. And so they lash out. But it’s a terrible thing to wake up and realize the person you just finished crucifying didn’t turn out to be Jesus.”

There’s only one thing that can satisfy a human completely, and it’s not another human. Sure, it might work for a while, but not forever. So confide in each other, trust each other, but don’t put your full emotional weight on anyone else, because it’ll just make you both fall.

~ GOM

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Our Stance

Our StanceWell it’s been a busy couple of days. We were featured on Jezebel.com in an article subtly titled “Modesty is Bullshit” (I’m honestly disappointed we didn’t make the cut for their “F–k You Week” line of articles, maybe next time). This brought us to the attention of a previously untapped audience—angry feminists, who’ve been visiting our blog and Facebook page in droves. So, in the wake of that I’d like to clarify a few things:

We are not out to dictate women’s clothes
Of our posts, only three have dealt with the issue of clothing. Two of those stressed that clothing is only a reflection of modesty, not the virtue itself.

We dictate nothing. We claim no authority
We’re just expressing our thoughts and appreciation of a virtue many people are  interested in pursuing and learning more about.

We just want to spread a new appreciation for modesty
Both Christian and secular circles focus the question too exclusively around clothing. We want to refocus the discussion on a broader understanding of modesty.

Modesty is positive and uplifting
Far from oppressing people, men or women, modesty gives the human person the respect it deserves. It’s not a long list of rules, but a fulfilling way of life.

But of course, this all presupposes that one thinks modesty is worth pursuing and the human person worth respecting. Our critics’ moral code seems to be that people can do whatever they want and respecting them means staying the heck out of the way. Now, our page assumes belief in a real system of morals, specifically, traditional Judeo-Christian ethics. If someone rejects all traditional virtue, discussion of one of those virtues in particular is an impossible and futile endeavor.

– GOM

Facebook Debate: Modesty & Clothing

A post on our Facebook page asking for clothing guidelines stemmed a debate on whether guys even have any business saying what’s modest for girls to wear or not (which is great, keep the posts and comments coming). Some people said God, not man is the determiner of what’s modest, so girls don’t need to ask men, and others said men should weigh since modesty is only for their sake anyway. I think there are elements in truth in both statements, but that they’re each incomplete. Guys-On-Modesty, wants to make it clear that our goal is to encourage and help girls see that there IS guys here in our world that DO appreciate Modesty. We appreciate woman that are modest is all areas of their lives, both physically and emotionally.Here in Guys-On-Modesty Blog, we are strong believers that Modesty is NOT just about clothing it’s a life style that reflects in the way you speak, act, and think!

To begin with, I’ve never liked the idea that guys should dictate what girls wear, I think it degrades the girl and paints all guys as uncontrollably lustful. Modesty is its own virtue, not just something girls do for men. That being said, girls should be mindful of how guys will see what they wear, both out of courtesy to men trying to live chastely, and to protect themselves from men who aren’t. To this end, guys are the perfect resource to inform a girl how she’ll be looked at if she wears this or that, but their opinion isn’t law.

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Modesty in Action

While action, like clothing is more a sign of modesty than the thing itself, it is perhaps the most important, and often neglected and misunderstood. The variations here are probably more varied and subtle than when it comes to clothing, because action springs more directly from one’s interior disposition than clothing does.

To begin with, let me clarify that by action I mean all of a person’s actions, not just those relating to some aspect of sexuality. Not pole-dancing makes your actions as modest as not kicking beggars makes them charitable. As I said in a previous post, modesty is a positive virtue. It is something you do, not a list of things you don’t do. In terms of action, it is a way of bearing oneself, a way of interacting with others. Ultimately this is determined by how a woman sees herself on the inside. The problem today is that women have been tricked to think one of two things: that their highest goal is to be desirable to men, or that they should actually be men (or sometimes both at the same time, look at any female super-hero). This just gets messy.

To illustrate that women are not in fact men, I would like to talk about the different way men and women create influence. Men create influence through outside resources—tools. Whichever guy has the biggest stick, be it money, or strength or followers or in some cases an actual stick, has the most power. This is clear in any place with a lot of men. When the CEO or general walks in, everyone gravitates towards him, not because of who he is, but because of what he controls. Women on the other hand don’t need a stick to have authority. They just do. Imagine Sandra Bullock walking into the same room. All of a sudden everyone in the room, including the general or the CEO are at her disposal, not because of what she carries—she has no authority or material claim over them, but because who she is somehow demands respect. You don’t have to be famous to evoke that respect though, you simply have to carry yourself right.

Women know this. But they trouble is a lot of them forget why they’re owed respect, and they think they have to carry around a stick just like the guys. The thing is, women weren’t meant to operate by threat of force, and women who forget that never seem quite secure or comfortable using whatever “stick” they have, but they don’t know how to command respect in any other way so they just use it all the more in a downward spiral. In they end, men just find them ridiculous or obnoxious. Remember, you’re owed respect because God made you, not because if you don’t get it you’ll complain the loudest or get even.


– Guys-On-Modesty

Redefining Modesty

The modesty debate runs sternly through any Christian circle, from the “modesty-means-dressing-fashionably-as-long-as-you-don’t-show-too-much” camp, which I more or less ascribe to, to the “if-it’s-not-a-denim-sack-you’re-going-to-hell” camp, which I find more repugnant and opposed to the human person than its total secular opposite. But in all cases, I think the debate is being argued from the wrong direction, or to be more precise, the opposite direction. Modesty, like chastity, has become a negative virtue, much more full of “thou shalt nots” than “thou shalts.” This is sad, because I feel looking at modesty or chastity from this perspective is a poverty of understanding, which, while it might avoid sin, leads to no great virtue.

As Lewis notes in The Great Divorce, the passion of lust is but a weakly substitute for the true, good and pure sexual passion which may be born when lust is killed. What is wrong with secularism is that it never gets past lust. What is wrong with Christians’ response is that they never get past condemning the lust and moving on to ponder what the virtue actually is. If this is true of chastity, it is doubly true of modesty, which has most faithful Christians, many better than myself, tied in knots over trivialities that don’t begin to approach the real virtue. One hears long debates as to whether a skirt may fall above or below the knee (I don’t know who thinks knees are so alluring anyway), whether pants are quite feminine enough, and I don’t even want to touch the issue of leggings. I even knew one fervent Christian group that forbade its young ladies to show their collar-bones. I don’t know what they expect will happen to their young men when they greet the world at large with vague ideas of sexualized collar-bones. These measures, while they may avoid sin, also avoid any real comprehension of modesty, which I hold to be an internal virtue much more than an external. The same with chastity.

Both virtues have to do with seeing value of the human person; modesty with recognizing your own value, and chastity with recognizing everybody else’s. This recognition is reflected in exterior actions—how we dress, how we interact sexually, etc. But such actions, or lack of action, are merely a reflection of the actual virtue, not the virtue itself. You can exercise abstinence without any appreciation for the multitude of people you aren’t sleeping with. But merely not dressing badly or not being promiscuous has about as much to do with virtue as not shooting your wife has to do with love. The purpose of this blog will be to explore the actual internal form of the virtue of modesty, and also chastity insofar as it relates to modesty. One last note, I don’t ascribe to any hard and fast rules on what is acceptable dress, although certainly some things are right out. Certain things, such as two piece swim-suits I see more as possibly unwise, but not necessarily wrong. I’ve seen bikinis worn with more perfect modesty than the most dour one-pieces. Denim sacks fail to realize the beauty of the human person just as much as thongs, possibly more so, for the one at least acknowledges its beauty even if it mistreats it, while the other would present the body’s beauty as something intrinsically evil, which is in my opinion the greater error.

– GOM